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good afternoon and welcome back from the

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social lounge i hope you're all having

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good conversations it's always a shame

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to stop those conversations but uh

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we do want to try to keep on schedule if

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we can

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my name is mark irvin lorraine i'm the

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secretary of the society for scientific

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exploration and i'm co-host for this uh

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particular session and i'm pleased to be

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able to introduce lloyd auerbach who is

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the director of the office of paranormal

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investigations and the president of the

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forever family foundation he has been in

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the field for over 40 years focusing on

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education and field investigations

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he's the author or co-author of ten

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non-fiction books and one novel

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he teaches online parapsychology courses

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through the rhein education center

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his media experiences on tv radio and in

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print number in the thousands

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including the unexplained

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espn's sports center

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abc's the view

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oprah

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and larry king live

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he works as a parapsychologist

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professional mentalist psychic

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entertainer as professor paranormal

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and has a public speaking and media

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skills coach and as a professional

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chocolatier

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so um a wide and a diverse range of uh

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backgrounds for lloyd so without further

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ado i'll start the uh playback and uh

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please if as you're listening to the

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talk as you have questions put them in

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the q a not in the chat please all right

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next uh i guess half an hour or so 35

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minutes or so i'm going to try to

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collapse

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what uh we cover in a lot of our classes

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at the ryan center into just one quick

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overview session to kind of give you an

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introduction so

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first

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my favorite quote and all my students

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see this science fiction writer kathleen

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sky there's no such thing as the

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supernatural they're only things we

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don't understand yet

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i think that's just simply a key

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statement for science in general

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okay

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so we took the title of this is

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paranormal investigations and

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i'm going to get to what that actually

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means for us but

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contrary to the reality shows because

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i'm unfortunately the paranormal tv

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shows the reality shows have created

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um on the negative some real

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misconceptions on the positive it's

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brought a lot more people to

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i guess you could say to the playground

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to play with it we just want to make

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sure that they know what they're doing

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so the paranormal is a term it's a much

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much more than ghosts and hauntings it

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has been applied of course beyond

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psychic phenomena to also include

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things that are unexplained

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uh we deal mainly with investigations

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and with apparitions hauntings and

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poltergeist i'll get into that in a bit

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but those are psychic or psy experiences

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and there's a big disconnect with the

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paranormal reality shows that seems they

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seem to think on the show as release

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they put out the idea that these are not

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connected to esp or connected to

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psychokinesis

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so all through all three of these fall

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under spontaneous psi experiences

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all of them start out with a human

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witness or an experiencer if we're going

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to investigate and i'll explain why that

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is

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technology that can detect psi phenomena

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that can detect ghosts no matter what

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they say on tv there's

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nothing that we for sure that can detect

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apparitions so technology is absolutely

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secondary to human experience

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and also we never well i should say we

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almost never investigate in the dark it

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would have to be that rare case where

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people are only having an experience

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when all the lights

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are out and it's the middle of the night

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and the thing that really always gets me

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and i've been on panels at some of the

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ghost conferences the the ghost hunter

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conferences where some folks from tv

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will say that there's nothing

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beyond the 1990s there's over 140 years

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of scientific investigation of these

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things

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and most ghost hunters

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many many people who follow the tv shows

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are totally unaware of this

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so why do we investigate well

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we investigate anything

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to solve a mystery in some respects but

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we get we from a scientific perspective

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we're trying to gather data to

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understand a particular phenomenon or a

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group of phenomena

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we want to understand and eliminate the

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normal explanations when we do

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investigations and research

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we want to be able to form questions

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hypotheses and if possible test them

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much harder in the field than it is in

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the laboratory

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we want to replicate the work of other

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researchers certainly in the laboratory

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in controlled research again tougher to

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do

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in a field investigation where you are

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not in control of the environment

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we do want to increase our knowledge in

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general of the phenomena and the

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experiences and of course

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this is something i'll talk about at the

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very end we want to help the

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experiencers when they are asking for

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help

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of course there are a lot of folks who

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just simply want to go out and have an

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experience of their own and that's okay

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as long as you are keeping other things

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in mind

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so i mentioned that these are we're

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dealing with spontaneous experiences and

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of course these are psychic phenomena or

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experiences that happen

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beyond the controlled conditions that

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you find in a laboratory

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so

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experiences of normal people we call

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those spontaneous but

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in many respects when a psychic or

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medium does something we still consider

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that a spontaneous psi experience even

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though they are in control and a

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conscious control because it's not under

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so i'm not going to go through all of

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these but when we talk about field work

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or field research or experiences we can

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look at outside the laboratory it is all

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of these

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we don't investigate necessarily all of

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these we may get reports of all of them

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and work with people or inform them

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about all of these and what we've

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learned over the years both from the

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from working with people's spontaneous

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experiences and from laboratory findings

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but

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these are all

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on the continuum of psychic experiences

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on the recurrent front which is what we

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want to look at we want to look at not

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just one time experiences but the

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recurrent experiences

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we're dealing with our big three the

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apparitions hauntings and poltergeists

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that's our typical paranormal

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investigations

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however one can also be

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a field investigator looking at cases of

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the reincarnation type such as what jim

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tucker does and others and jim matlock

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and others have done

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working with children who remember

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previous lives

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i personally have been involved in a

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number of investigations of the claimed

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abilities of various psychics and

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mediums

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some of which have turned out to be

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genuine and unfortunately some of which

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have turned out to be absolute frauds

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in some instance instances not even good

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frauds

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so we are really looking at the

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experiences and the reports and reports

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are important of people

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even in the cases where it seems the

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phenomena exists on its own and what

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that means is

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if you have a situation where there is

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truly an apparition a conscious person

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without their body so someone who

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survived the death of their body they

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exist on their own we don't need any

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witnesses

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but in order for us to investigate

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unless the apparition happened to come

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to

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contact me

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directly which has not happened yet

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we have to have the experiences of

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witnesses we have to have reports from

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witnesses so we can't deal directly with

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the phenomena unless it becomes evident

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so let's take a look at these three

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different things that we're dealing with

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here

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one of them is hauntings now on tv

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you'll hear this referred to as residual

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hauntings

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and psychics talk about imprints they

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talk about psychic residue

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um

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they're the term place memory is an old

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term that we've been using again since

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probably around the late 1990s and i

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think it actually uh really

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encapsulates what we're dealing with

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most of the time

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it's as if the location or sometimes an

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object because it can be an object

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seems to hold information

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about its history possibly recent

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history possibly older history

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and how

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we as witnesses as experiencers pick

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this up would either be through a form

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of clairvoyance esp essentially of the

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location or of the object

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and its history or you know there's

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always a possibility that this that

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there is something going on

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in the physical environment

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that can eventually be understood from a

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physics a current physics perspective

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and the human brain and how it's picking

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up information from the environment so

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we have to consider that as a

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possibility it may not be purely a

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psychic thing even though it's still a

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function of consciousness in that sense

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one of the ways to look at this

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is if you know of the phenomena or the

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ability of psychometry which is

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something that psychics have talked

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about for hundreds of years the idea

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that you can touch or hold an object

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and pick up information about where that

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object's been who its owner is that sort

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of thing it's history essentially

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and it's actually not too hard for

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people to learn this i've taught a

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number of my students to do this i've

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done it on occasion myself i know

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psychics really good psychics who've

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been able to do this very well and work

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with police over the years

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so if you think about psychometry

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picking up information from

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something about that object something

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about that thing

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when you're in a house

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you're picking up information from that

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house

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that's a form of psychometry that's a

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form of clairvoyance or espn in general

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so

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the thing to remember and this is an

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important distinction between this and

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apparitions

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and that is

286
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that while pop culture tells us that

287
00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:06,000
something terrible must have happened in

288
00:10:11,670 --> 00:10:08,880
this location a suicide a murder a

289
00:10:13,750 --> 00:10:11,680
knockdown drag out fight a massacre a

290
00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:13,760
battle something like that

291
00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:16,800
so it seems to relate to death

292
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:18,640
that's not the case

293
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:20,880
it's the living perhaps in the process

294
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:23,760
of dying perhaps not but it's the living

295
00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:26,640
who leave the impressions behind

296
00:10:31,430 --> 00:10:29,120
and those living people of us who are

297
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:31,440
witnesses we come along we pick up the

298
00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:33,760
information we might pick it up visually

299
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:36,160
we might pick it up auditorily we might

300
00:10:41,030 --> 00:10:39,040
feel something in other words we process

301
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:41,040
the information the perception of the

302
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:42,160
information

303
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:45,360
is processed as if it's similar or as if

304
00:10:51,590 --> 00:10:48,480
it is a sensory experience when in fact

305
00:10:53,269 --> 00:10:51,600
it's an extra or non-sensory experience

306
00:10:54,949 --> 00:10:53,279
bit of information

307
00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:54,959
now when i i really want to distance

308
00:10:58,949 --> 00:10:57,120
this from death for a couple of reasons

309
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:58,959
one because

310
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:00,480
you can pick up information whether it's

311
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:03,360
in a haunted house or on an object

312
00:11:07,829 --> 00:11:06,000
using psychometry from the previous

313
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:07,839
owner even the current owner

314
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:09,600
that person's alive

315
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:11,920
people have reported seeing and hearing

316
00:11:15,190 --> 00:11:13,760
things related to living people even to

317
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:15,200
themselves

318
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,720
over the years

319
00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:18,560
and to give you a really good

320
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,480
understanding of this and this is the

321
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:22,399
way i've had to explain this to some of

322
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:24,160
the ghost hunters out there

323
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:25,519
i can watch

324
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,160
movies from the 1930s

325
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,720
now those movies were made

326
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,560
when those people were alive no one in

327
00:11:37,030 --> 00:11:34,959
that film when it was made

328
00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:37,040
was had died unless they had died before

329
00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,959
the film was released

330
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:40,800
but when they actually filming they were

331
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,880
all alive

332
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:45,200
decades later they're all dead they're

333
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,399
all deceased

334
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:48,399
i can still watch that movie

335
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:50,560
so i am watching a recording of living

336
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:53,680
people from the 1930s think of a

337
00:11:58,150 --> 00:11:55,920
haunting that way it's a recording of an

338
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:58,160
event that might have been a week ago

339
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,360
or 50 years ago or much longer than that

340
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:03,519
we pick it up we become the playback we

341
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:06,240
become the projector we become the dvd

342
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:08,560
player and so on we become living

343
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:14,310
the term apparition actually goes back

344
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:17,200
to the 19th century in common usage in

345
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:19,519
the field of psychical research

346
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:21,600
and while ghosts

347
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:23,680
can almost be used in a and you'll see

348
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,000
that you know i might mention that um

349
00:12:29,590 --> 00:12:27,839
use that term a number of times because

350
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,600
most people seem to think of ghosts as a

351
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:31,600
spirit of someone who used to live

352
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,959
that's actually not how that term is

353
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:34,480
always used

354
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,320
but when we're talking about apparitions

355
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,720
think of an apparition a ghost

356
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:40,959
as that which is perceived and it's

357
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,320
always important to remember there's a

358
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:44,399
difference between perception

359
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:47,040
and what our senses pick up

360
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:50,160
so i perceive not with my eyes not with

361
00:12:54,629 --> 00:12:51,519
my ears

362
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:54,639
i don't sense i perceive information

363
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,519
that relates to and allows me to see or

364
00:13:02,069 --> 00:12:58,959
seemingly see

365
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:02,079
or hear or feel or smell

366
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:03,120
something

367
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,120
that apparently interacts

368
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:07,120
it seems to be related to some part of

369
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:09,040
the human personality whether you want

370
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:11,680
to call that mind or soul or spirit

371
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,760
that can again somehow exist in our

372
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:15,440
physical universe

373
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:18,959
after the death of that person's body

374
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:21,440
but also because we have a category of

375
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:23,920
apparitions of living apparitions

376
00:13:26,790 --> 00:13:25,279
potentially

377
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,800
that apparition is someone who is

378
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,320
projected outside their bodies or

379
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,600
perhaps they have

380
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,279
had an out-of-body experience or having

381
00:13:34,949 --> 00:13:32,639
an out-of-body experience and they

382
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:34,959
travel somewhere and somebody sees them

383
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:38,079
that's an apparition of the living

384
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:40,160
we focus on apparitions in our

385
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:43,199
investigations of humans but reports do

386
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:44,320
come in

387
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:47,760
of animals especially pets

388
00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:49,360
always have to remember here though it's

389
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:51,440
really important that

390
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,839
we consider there are two sides to

391
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:55,920
what's going on psychically using using

392
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:56,800
psy

393
00:14:02,710 --> 00:13:59,040
there is the apparition

394
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,720
and there is you the witness you are

395
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,040
receiving information which then plays

396
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:07,519
back in some way you perceive

397
00:14:11,829 --> 00:14:10,160
in a visual auditory in some way and not

398
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:11,839
everybody perceives apparitions the same

399
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:15,120
way even in the same case

400
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:16,959
so you perceive this

401
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:20,160
how are you getting that information

402
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:22,160
that person doesn't have a physical form

403
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,399
to reflect or give off light so your

404
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:26,399
eyes are not picking that thing that

405
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:27,760
person up

406
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:30,079
they do not have vocal cords in which to

407
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:32,800
make or move to make sound to move the

408
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:35,920
air to create a physical sound

409
00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:38,160
so it's all think of it as a psychic bit

410
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:40,000
of psychic information

411
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,560
so you are being psychic

412
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,560
you are using psy

413
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:46,959
consciously unconsciously to perceive

414
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,920
that apparition and that apparition is

415
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,760
using sty they don't have a body they

416
00:14:54,949 --> 00:14:53,760
don't have physical senses they're using

417
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:54,959
psy to

418
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,720
actually interact

419
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:58,320
i mean if you were if you were dead and

420
00:15:03,350 --> 00:14:59,760
you didn't have a physical body you have

421
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:03,360
no eyes to see how do you see the world

422
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:04,639
well you'd have to be using something

423
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:06,720
that is non-sensory it's still

424
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:09,600
perception but it's non-sensory and we

425
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:11,600
would call that esp and then if they

426
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:13,279
actually move an object that is

427
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:15,519
psychokinesis that is mind over matter

428
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:17,120
whether it's a human being who's alive

429
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:18,320
who does it or a human being who's

430
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:24,069
we compare the two and this is a kind of

431
00:15:28,310 --> 00:15:25,199
a key thing when we're doing

432
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,320
investigations we have to do this

433
00:15:32,069 --> 00:15:29,920
in any investigation where there's a

434
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:32,079
human figure scene for example

435
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:33,680
first we consider apparitions as

436
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:38,949
because of that when an affirmation is

437
00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:41,120
of someone who is whose

438
00:15:44,949 --> 00:15:43,120
personality or is survive the death of

439
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,959
their body we see this as evidence for

440
00:15:47,509 --> 00:15:46,560
survival of bodily death of course it

441
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:47,519
can be

442
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:50,639
interpreted from a super esp perspective

443
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:53,839
from a purely materialist perspective

444
00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:56,000
but it can be applied as evidence for

445
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:57,360
survival

446
00:16:02,710 --> 00:15:59,120
apparitions again can be of deceased

447
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:02,720
people or living individuals either one

448
00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:04,160
they are typically

449
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,880
that should be not are not typically

450
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:09,120
repetitive or acting in a pattern

451
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,639
although i can't rule that out because

452
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:12,079
you know it's possible that the

453
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:13,360
apparition is somebody when they were

454
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,959
alive that ocd

455
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:16,880
so that they are repeating themselves

456
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:19,519
over and over and over again

457
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:21,040
but that's really rare

458
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:23,120
all right hauntings again thinking of

459
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:24,720
them as recordings

460
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:27,040
are seemingly location or object bound

461
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:29,040
where apparitions are not

462
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,720
while apparitions tend to stick in one

463
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,839
location

464
00:16:35,990 --> 00:16:34,000
that's based on the person who the

465
00:16:37,990 --> 00:16:36,000
apparition represents

466
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,000
they tend to go to

467
00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:40,880
a place that is was associated with them

468
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:42,320
when they were alive whether it is back

469
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:45,360
to their home to their family to the bar

470
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:47,360
or restaurant that used to frequent to

471
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:49,120
the hotel they worked at

472
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:51,360
to the aircraft carrier that they had

473
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,680
real fond memories of

474
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,360
but they're ten tend to stick around one

475
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:57,040
location but they certainly don't

476
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:59,040
are not stuck there whereas hauntings

477
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:00,720
are location bound because it's related

478
00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:02,959
to the information in the environment

479
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:05,360
hauntings cannot

480
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:07,760
be applied to evidence for survival

481
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:10,640
any more than that 1930s movie can be

482
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:12,880
applied as evidence for survival of the

483
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:15,679
people in that film

484
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:18,400
hauntings can be of deceased or of

485
00:17:22,230 --> 00:17:20,640
living people or of recent activity or

486
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:22,240
older activity

487
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:24,079
but again the activity happened when

488
00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:26,240
they were alive and in and there are

489
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:28,160
huntings where they do relate to a

490
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,799
battle or they do relate to a murder or

491
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:33,039
something like that

492
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:36,400
but the the recording tends to end when

493
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:38,640
that person has died you don't see a

494
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:41,919
recording a haunting of a dead body

495
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:43,600
so here we're looking for the difference

496
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:44,559
being

497
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:46,480
uh because hauntings are repetitive they

498
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:48,160
tend to have a pattern we're looking for

499
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:49,679
interactivity

500
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:55,510
poltergeist phenomena

501
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:58,320
or recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis

502
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:59,679
it happens again and again it is

503
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,840
spontaneous or uncontrolled and it is

504
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:03,600
mind over matter

505
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:07,200
uh that is related to living agent

506
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:08,160
pk

507
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:10,160
so we tend to look at

508
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,360
activity

509
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:13,520
in cases and poltergeist cases are all

510
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,400
about physical activity

511
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:18,640
that this relates to a living person in

512
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:19,919
the environment or perhaps the

513
00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:23,120
psychology of a group of a family

514
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:24,720
the model is

515
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,919
itself the rsp model goes back to 1958

516
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:29,840
and a case

517
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:33,280
in long island that william roll and jd

518
00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:34,480
pratt did

519
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,520
and although there are much earlier

520
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:39,280
routes there are kind of writings and

521
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:41,840
murmurings from nandor fodor and others

522
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,280
in the early part of the 20th century

523
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:45,039
about this idea

524
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:46,720
and there have been hypotheses that have

525
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:48,720
been tested in cases to get the

526
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:50,559
phenomena to stop or determine who might

527
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:54,320
be at the center of the poltergeist case

528
00:18:57,029 --> 00:18:55,600
so you might want to take a look at the

529
00:18:59,909 --> 00:18:57,039
work of bill roll

530
00:19:02,390 --> 00:18:59,919
tony cornell scott rogo and definitely

531
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:02,400
nandor fodor

532
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:04,080
so one thing i learned over the last few

533
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,559
years purely by accident conversing on

534
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:08,480
email ver with a couple of folks in the

535
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:09,520
uk

536
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,600
is that the term poltergeist

537
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,280
it seems in the us we kind of follow the

538
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:14,960
bill royal model but i've known people

539
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,760
in the uk as i learned uh from guy lyon

540
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:19,520
playfair a number of years ago where the

541
00:19:22,870 --> 00:19:21,039
term poltergeist refers to any case

542
00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:22,880
where there's physical activity and then

543
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:24,160
they might break it out when they

544
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:25,360
determine that there might be an

545
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:26,720
apparition there versus it's a living

546
00:19:30,150 --> 00:19:29,360
agent whereas we use that term to start

547
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:30,160
with

548
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,559
apparitions a little different

549
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:36,799
so let's take a look at that particular

550
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:40,480
thing so this comparison police cases

551
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,720
when we use that term they're typically

552
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,280
physical activity only

553
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:47,760
uh there is they're missing operational

554
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:49,840
sightings and when there are

555
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:52,720
figures seen they tend to be archetypal

556
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:54,320
or dreamlike

557
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:58,000
not representing actual people

558
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,440
they generally connect to a living

559
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:01,600
person in the situation

560
00:20:05,029 --> 00:20:03,520
so you can play detective and figure out

561
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,039
who's at the center of all this although

562
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,880
again it could be the psychology of a

563
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:09,120
family that's involved

564
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:10,559
they're generally very chaotic when i

565
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:11,440
say

566
00:20:14,549 --> 00:20:12,320
they

567
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:14,559
the activity in the cases

568
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:16,960
are is chaotic it doesn't really follow

569
00:20:20,789 --> 00:20:18,960
a rhyme or reason although the types of

570
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,799
items that move or the kind of phenomena

571
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:22,080
that's happening may relate to that

572
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:24,080
living person's that poltergeist agent

573
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,320
to that person's psychology

574
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,320
whereas apparitions they can

575
00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:30,480
occasionally include physical activity

576
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:32,320
but apparitional pk

577
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:35,679
tends to be very purposeful non-chaotic

578
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:38,720
a little playful uh in some respects it

579
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,320
can get chaotic if and i've seen this in

580
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:44,000
the literature and in cases i've even

581
00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:44,880
had

582
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:47,200
where the people tend to are absolutely

583
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:48,880
purposely ignoring the apparition

584
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:49,919
because they don't want to believe he or

585
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:52,080
she exists and that apparition gets a

586
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,280
little upset

587
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:55,440
and throws a temper tantrum usually

588
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,720
stops almost immediately as soon as they

589
00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,200
pay attention

590
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,520
they're generally independent of whether

591
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,080
anyone is living there or working there

592
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,240
or even present

593
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,480
so we have this kind of distinction

594
00:21:12,870 --> 00:21:10,559
between these cases

595
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:12,880
now we focus on the high impact

596
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:14,960
experiences in most of our exp

597
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:18,480
investigations i have not had reports of

598
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:20,080
children remembering previous lives it

599
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:21,760
is not my specialty

600
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:23,360
i'd be very happy to get involved in

601
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:24,880
investigating those but i would tend to

602
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:27,600
refer those out to the specialists in

603
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:28,960
our field

604
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,400
but again with these three with

605
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:32,000
apparitions hauntings and poltergeists

606
00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:33,520
you do want to remember

607
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,320
that

608
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:36,799
even though there's an apparition there

609
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:40,559
there is the esp or psi of the witnesses

610
00:21:44,630 --> 00:21:42,640
with hauntings there's possibly an

611
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:44,640
imprint in the environment but there is

612
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:47,520
the ability of the witnesses to pick up

613
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:49,919
the information and poltergeists are all

614
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:52,159
about living agents so all of these

615
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,840
involve solubilities and what i've heard

616
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:54,880
some

617
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:58,559
to go to the ghost conferences or seen

618
00:22:01,909 --> 00:21:59,600
some things

619
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:01,919
posted on the web or on social media

620
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:03,919
that uh ghost hunters don't need to know

621
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:05,840
anything about esp

622
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,440
that's absurd

623
00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:09,520
because those things these things do not

624
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:10,720
exist

625
00:22:15,270 --> 00:22:13,280
in a vacuum

626
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,280
so what do we investigate

627
00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:17,280
well we definitely investigate witness

628
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:19,120
reports and experiences

629
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,880
provided

630
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:22,159
they're not one-offs and they didn't

631
00:22:26,310 --> 00:22:24,240
happen like a year or two or longer ago

632
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:26,320
i've had people report to me that they

633
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:27,919
want an investigation or call me they

634
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,080
want an investigation uh here's what

635
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,840
happened in our house five years ago can

636
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,159
you come out we just found out about you

637
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:36,080
and the answer to that is what's the

638
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,200
point if nothing has happened in the

639
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:38,880
last five years i'm happy to take their

640
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:41,360
experience to get the report and talk to

641
00:22:45,750 --> 00:22:43,919
them about what might have happened but

642
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,760
think of it as the ultimate cold case

643
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:48,000
that happened in crime alley where there

644
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:49,120
have been many other crimes that

645
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,720
happened since then there's not even any

646
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,080
evidence you can get

647
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:53,600
other than the witness testimony which

648
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:56,080
you don't need to get on site

649
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:57,360
i've even had people call me about their

650
00:23:01,990 --> 00:22:59,360
ghost experiences after they've moved

651
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:05,190
so we might investigate a case uh based

652
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:07,520
on rumor or local folklore if there's

653
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:08,559
enough

654
00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:10,640
indication that there truly are

655
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:13,120
first-hand accounts that were taken down

656
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:14,640
so there may could could be a story

657
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:17,520
about a location a restaurant or a place

658
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:19,280
and you do a little research and you

659
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:21,280
find out hey people did write about this

660
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,400
people did

661
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:24,159
put in their first hand experiences

662
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:25,120
people were interviewed for the

663
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:26,400
newspaper

664
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,120
that might make it worthwhile

665
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:30,880
but it's pretty rare

666
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:32,880
and we do not investigate spooky old

667
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:35,200
buildings that have neither one of those

668
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,240
however i know a lot of ghost hunting

669
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:41,590
so the most common steps for basic field

670
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:44,480
investigation are pretty simple

671
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:45,840
we interview

672
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:49,360
interviewing is your is the best skill

673
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:50,960
you can come up with for doing

674
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:52,640
investigations

675
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,240
so that means asking questions and

676
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:56,799
listening and asking more questions but

677
00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,520
we may have surveys and such you try to

678
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:01,279
confirm the statements including talking

679
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:03,679
to other witnesses but you two try to

680
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,559
rule out fraud and lying and you want to

681
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,080
find out what their motivations are even

682
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:09,760
for reporting

683
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,080
if a site visits appropriate

684
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:15,120
you want to think about the potential

685
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,640
for alternative

686
00:24:20,789 --> 00:24:19,440
sources of the experiences before you go

687
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,799
and then you absolutely look for those

688
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:22,559
when you're there you want to totally

689
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:24,960
observe and thoroughly and look at the

690
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,520
location and the people themselves and

691
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:29,120
you may be doing historical another

692
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:31,039
background research if the type of case

693
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:33,600
refers to that or relates to that

694
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,600
you draw your conclusions

695
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,760
and then hopefully you help the clients

696
00:24:43,750 --> 00:24:39,440
where help is requested and all along

697
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,669
the basic tools

698
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:47,039
you have a report intake you have

699
00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,559
interviewing again that's in bold

700
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:50,720
because it's really important we might

701
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:53,520
use surveys and polls in investigations

702
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,200
we might do records research we

703
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,360
certainly do site visits we're doing a

704
00:25:02,070 --> 00:24:59,440
lot of problem solving in a lot of these

705
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,080
cases and i have to be honest in all the

706
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,840
cases i've had

707
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:05,760
i have yet to have a case where

708
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:08,720
everything reported was related to the

709
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,679
apparition the haunting or the

710
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:11,360
poltergeist

711
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:13,200
individual events

712
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:15,200
or activities that are reported

713
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,960
look need to be looked at individually

714
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:18,240
because

715
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:20,320
many of what people report in these

716
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,559
cases especially when they're on edge

717
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:24,480
or freaked out

718
00:25:29,190 --> 00:25:27,760
they have alternate explanations

719
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:29,200
people immediately label them as

720
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:31,279
paranormal because they've had a genuine

721
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:33,200
or seemingly genuine experience to begin

722
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,640
with

723
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:35,919
we do use tools to measure the

724
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:37,840
environment we do not use tools to

725
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:39,200
measure the ghosts or to communicate in

726
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:41,120
that way

727
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:43,520
we use tools to look for correlations in

728
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:45,520
the physical environment not just to the

729
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,400
paranormal but also to

730
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:50,640
alternative explanations

731
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,480
so it helps to have a broad knowledge of

732
00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:54,720
possible explanations including fraud

733
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,640
that's one of the things my the course

734
00:26:00,070 --> 00:25:58,000
that john mentioned that how to choose a

735
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,080
psychic will be talking about psychic

736
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:02,720
fraud in that class as well and in fact

737
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:04,240
it's working with psychics and mediums

738
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:06,080
and investigations

739
00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:07,600
it is really important to have an

740
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,400
understanding of the field of

741
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,720
parapsychology and laboratory findings

742
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,320
because what we're doing is applying the

743
00:26:15,269 --> 00:26:14,480
knowledge and the findings of laboratory

744
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:15,279
work

745
00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:17,840
to the field and vice versa

746
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:19,760
and it also is important to know that it

747
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:21,279
helps to have some counseling skills

748
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,159
without being acting as a counselor or

749
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,400
therapist if you're not legally

750
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:28,480
able to do that but you want to be able

751
00:26:32,950 --> 00:26:31,440
to give referrals to people to help them

752
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:32,960
so from our from the perspective of

753
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:35,440
parapsychology from psychical research

754
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:37,120
you know we're studying the experiences

755
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,480
and we're studying what's behind the

756
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,400
experiences as far as sire the

757
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:42,240
paranormal is concerned

758
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:43,679
we want to look past the labels that

759
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,600
people use if they call it a demon you

760
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:47,679
gotta look past that

761
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,400
and see what might really be going on

762
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,840
people use all sorts of labels

763
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:53,200
especially today because of popular

764
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:54,559
culture

765
00:26:58,149 --> 00:26:56,320
and we have to figure out what lies

766
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,159
below them and we always have to

767
00:27:02,149 --> 00:27:00,400
remember that things are not always

768
00:27:05,269 --> 00:27:02,159
paranormal even though they seem that

769
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:05,279
way because people make perceptual

770
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,760
mistakes they make conceptual mistakes

771
00:27:12,549 --> 00:27:10,080
meaning they did not have the knowledge

772
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,559
base to come to the correct conclusion

773
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,240
about what's actually going on even

774
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,279
though it's not paranormal

775
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:19,440
so we must eliminate all the non-size

776
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,440
sources and causes because you're trying

777
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:22,960
to study something and you can't study

778
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:25,440
it if you don't get rid of all the the

779
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,880
crap that's there

780
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:30,960
so this can include all sorts of

781
00:27:33,669 --> 00:27:32,480
explanation this is not even a full list

782
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:33,679
by the way

783
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:35,120
there are i think the main thing is

784
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,720
mistaken perceptions mistaking

785
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,320
conclusions

786
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,200
uh i am trained as a magician and

787
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,360
mentalist i do perform professionally as

788
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:46,240
a mentalist uh and i'm heavily involved

789
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:49,039
in the psychic entertainers association

790
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:51,520
what i've learned my background which

791
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:52,799
only started by the way of my

792
00:27:58,070 --> 00:27:55,520
parapsychology education

793
00:28:01,669 --> 00:27:58,080
that's given me an understanding of how

794
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,679
easy it is for people to make mistakes

795
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:03,360
in their conclusion about what's going

796
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,720
on and i'm not talking about with

797
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:06,880
magicians performing or mentalists

798
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:09,200
just in general

799
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:10,720
it's really interesting how people work

800
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:11,840
that way and it really gives you an

801
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,600
insight into people how people remember

802
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,960
things too

803
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:16,480
we have to know something about

804
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:17,520
environmental conditions since

805
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:19,200
environmental conditions can easily

806
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,480
cause

807
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,559
mistaken conclusions

808
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,640
and bad perceptions

809
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:25,840
we have to look at things that are

810
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:27,279
physiologically related like sleep

811
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:28,640
paralysis

812
00:28:33,750 --> 00:28:30,880
psychological issues are certainly there

813
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,760
there's witness bias and testimony

814
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:36,240
memory involved in testimony

815
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,840
and there can be medical issues

816
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:40,080
neurological issues specifically

817
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,440
we always have to consider drugs and

818
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,360
alcohol although

819
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,039
when you have a group of people who

820
00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:47,440
having experience if they truly are each

821
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,520
individually having those experiences

822
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:52,000
that's less likely an issue

823
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,360
same with the medical and neurological

824
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:55,120
issues but environmental is definitely

825
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:57,200
potential there and we have to ask their

826
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,840
motivations because motivations do lead

827
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,440
to fraudulent reports

828
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,000
i have had people who have

829
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:05,760
actually opened up and right off the bat

830
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:07,120
and said you know like what do you want

831
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:08,159
i say what do you want to get out of

832
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,919
this case uh do you want help you want

833
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,320
it phenomenal to stop no no we're um

834
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:14,320
we're going to sell this uh as a

835
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:16,080
screenplay to such and such a movie

836
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:18,159
company and that's a that's a case i'm

837
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:20,080
not going on it's very unlikely to be

838
00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,880
real

839
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,399
and then there is just out and out

840
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:24,240
psychic fraud or those people who

841
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,679
pretend to be psychic who have actually

842
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:29,679
created more of a problem and i have to

843
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:31,279
say that included in that i would

844
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:32,880
include some of the ghost hunters are

845
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:34,799
out there who

846
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:38,000
may be unintentionally creating problems

847
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:39,760
but because they have a lack of

848
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,919
knowledge but a professing knowledge

849
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:43,760
that they do not have

850
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:47,679
have often created more problems for the

851
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:48,880
families

852
00:29:57,590 --> 00:29:55,269
all right now we do have truly an

853
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,600
ethical conundrum

854
00:30:02,230 --> 00:30:00,480
how do we help people asking for help

855
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,240
while getting as much data and testing

856
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,159
hypotheses where we can

857
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,240
and the problem here is

858
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:08,559
i want to know what the phenomena is i

859
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:10,480
want to gather as much as i can but

860
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,640
people these people have called me

861
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:14,720
and are saying we're traumatized we're

862
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:17,919
upset we need help

863
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:20,559
and that becomes an issue and frankly um

864
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,480
if you do take our ethics class you'll

865
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:24,880
learn that i think it's most important

866
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:27,600
to do what doctors do which is to do no

867
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,200
harm

868
00:30:35,190 --> 00:30:31,200
i'm a firm believer in that

869
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:35,200
i am part of a panel on next friday on a

870
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:36,720
poltergeist case that we had here in the

871
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,399
bay area in silicon valley that was

872
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:41,360
totally worked through virtually because

873
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,600
of the pandemic i think you'll find that

874
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:45,520
session really interesting especially

875
00:30:51,669 --> 00:30:47,600
the part about how we handle this

876
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:51,679
therapeutically as well

877
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,080
so remember that spontaneous experiences

878
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:56,240
do provide the who what when where and

879
00:30:59,509 --> 00:30:57,840
how

880
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:59,519
under what particular conditions things

881
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,640
happen

882
00:31:04,389 --> 00:31:02,640
maybe even hence the why you can get

883
00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:04,399
that from cases as well why these are

884
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,039
happening certainly you can get that

885
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,039
and these are all observations of psi in

886
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,039
the wild so

887
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:13,039
spontaneous stuff

888
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,440
helps us identify patterns

889
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:17,600
which can suggest research hypotheses

890
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:19,760
perhaps not with apparitions but

891
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,679
certainly in other ways

892
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:23,039
we have yet to get an apparition to

893
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:24,480
volunteer to be in the laboratory on a

894
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:26,320
regular basis and

895
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:29,760
got no way to hold into a schedule so

896
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:32,000
we do get ideas about what can be

897
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,279
researched and in fact most of the

898
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:34,960
research on esp

899
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:37,679
and psychokinesis comes from

900
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:39,440
initially reports that people have had

901
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:42,159
of having these experiences but then

902
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:44,159
what you find what you learn from the

903
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:45,519
conclusions the findings in the

904
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,799
laboratory

905
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:48,799
actually can be applied back

906
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,559
to understanding

907
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:52,799
spontaneous psy to these experiences

908
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:54,080
certainly the experiences of the

909
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:55,760
witnesses even if we can't apply them

910
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:57,840
always to the apparitions or the

911
00:32:07,590 --> 00:32:04,470
so to sum up as i think i've hit my half

912
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:09,430
remember to learn as much as you can if

913
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,640
you've been sitting through this all day

914
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:12,880
you have learned quite a bit if you sit

915
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:14,159
through the conference you will learn

916
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:15,679
quite a bit more

917
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:17,519
but definitely delve into what the field

918
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:19,919
has done not just the laboratory work

919
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:21,600
but also the field work that folks have

920
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:25,120
done and get an idea of the spread of

921
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:26,720
even opinions

922
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,600
and perspectives on the phenomena these

923
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,279
field phenomena

924
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,880
from folks within the field because we

925
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:34,640
don't all agree on the same thing i mean

926
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,559
what i'm putting out today

927
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:38,000
is general

928
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:40,159
but honestly there are folks

929
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:41,360
some of my colleagues who don't agree

930
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:44,320
with me on everything and that is normal

931
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:46,559
within the process of science you want

932
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:49,039
that kind of discourse

933
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:50,720
uh and it should be friendly not what we

934
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:52,320
see with the ghost hunter groups uh

935
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,440
quite a bit

936
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:55,600
we want to apply the science we want to

937
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:57,840
apply the findings so i do applied

938
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,559
science when i do a so-called scientific

939
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:02,000
investigation which is a big thing for

940
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:03,679
ghost honors it seems

941
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:05,519
really what i'm doing is applying the

942
00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:07,279
science because a lot of you can't

943
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,320
really

944
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:10,720
work the total scientific method into

945
00:33:15,269 --> 00:33:12,640
every investigation

946
00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:15,279
you are really being a detective here

947
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:17,600
and you really do want to be helpful as

948
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:19,840
much as possible

949
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,799
okay

950
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:22,799
so last thing i just want to mention

951
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:24,880
is uh every other sunday i do something

952
00:33:30,310 --> 00:33:27,679
on facebook live uh called ask professor

953
00:33:31,750 --> 00:33:30,320
paranormal and people feed me questions

954
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:31,760
and i just spend the hour answering

955
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:33,679
questions so my next one is tomorrow

956
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,720
night

957
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:36,320
sunday the 18th

958
00:33:41,190 --> 00:33:39,440
it's 8 30 eastern time 5 30 pacific time

959
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:41,200
goes for an hour you'll find it on

960
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:44,240
facebook.com the live paranormal and if

961
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:46,000
you follow me on twitter

962
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:47,039
um

963
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:48,799
you will see an announcement or facebook

964
00:33:51,029 --> 00:33:49,679
for that matter you'll see an

965
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:51,039
announcement about that i'll be posting

966
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,360
something tomorrow just to confirm that

967
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:55,440
you can always contact me through my my

968
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,799
email there

969
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,399
please do consider taking some of the

970
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:00,480
courses at the rhine center

971
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:04,080
we we have great courses that and a

972
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:05,519
great group of people who are teaching

973
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:06,480
them

974
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:08,000
and i mentioned the forever family

975
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,720
foundation in my first slide this is an

976
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,159
organization that supports the work of

977
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:13,839
spirit mediums in the family grieving

978
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:15,919
process but also supports

979
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,679
the research of

980
00:34:21,510 --> 00:34:19,599
scientists who are doing work looking at

981
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:21,520
survival of bodily death

982
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,839
i'm very proud to be president of the

983
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,240
foundation in fact you can join that one

984
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,480
for free and these are my books the one

985
00:34:46,829 --> 00:34:30,159
in the middle is a novel and we have our

986
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:48,470
foreign

987
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:50,720
thank you lloyd uh

988
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:51,760
for that

989
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:54,720
very interesting and uh informative talk

990
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,000
um

991
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,079
and people have been putting some

992
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,640
questions in the q a please put them in

993
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,640
the q a and not in the chat

994
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:04,400
um and we'll go through some of those

995
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:06,800
questions but i think before we hit

996
00:35:10,390 --> 00:35:08,160
those questions

997
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,400
at the end you mentioned you have a live

998
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:12,720
facebook thing yes yes

999
00:35:17,190 --> 00:35:15,200
let me let me just watch

1000
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,200
yeah so first of all i mentioned a panel

1001
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:19,680
that was upcoming uh i had no idea last

1002
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,200
year that we'd be using this video for

1003
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,280
this year just like one

1004
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,079
so that i did in the chat put a link to

1005
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,560
the youtube video of that panel so you

1006
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,720
can find that

1007
00:35:34,150 --> 00:35:32,560
and then tomorrow night actually it is

1008
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:34,160
tomorrow night as it happens this is not

1009
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:35,440
july 18th

1010
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,400
it's

1011
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,480
june 12th i am doing my facebook live

1012
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,720
and it can be found on facebook live

1013
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:42,640
listening facebook.com

1014
00:35:46,390 --> 00:35:44,800
the live paranormal or

1015
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:46,400
facebook.com

1016
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:49,680
slash lloyd.hourback.author

1017
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:51,440
either one of those i will

1018
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,359
follow the pages if you go to any other

1019
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,359
page on facebook that is also

1020
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:57,599
broadcasting that facebook live i will

1021
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:59,200
not see your comments or questions so

1022
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:00,800
i'll just sort of tell you that

1023
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:03,440
good all right but they can't people can

1024
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:05,359
uh give you comments and questions at

1025
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:06,720
that point absolutely yeah that's what

1026
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:08,800
the whole hour is it's just a

1027
00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:11,200
flood of those terrific because i mean

1028
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,560
and that follows up with a couple of

1029
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:14,160
things that have been posted both in the

1030
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:17,280
chat and in the q a from people who have

1031
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:19,200
had experiences like this

1032
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,680
and are looking for

1033
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:23,599
what to do with them some people that

1034
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:25,119
will pay attention to

1035
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:28,400
their um experiences in a meaningful

1036
00:36:32,710 --> 00:36:30,480
manner so is it appropriate for them to

1037
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:32,720
reach out to you in one of your venues

1038
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:34,960
yeah i i think that's fine for that um

1039
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,880
you know also i posted if you saw in

1040
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:39,040
that last slide i had my email address

1041
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:40,400
up this work that's another good way to

1042
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,760
do that

1043
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,599
so you know i know people have psychic

1044
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:45,599
experiences and i can certainly help

1045
00:36:48,390 --> 00:36:47,200
point you in the right direction explain

1046
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:48,400
you know if it's a simple experience

1047
00:36:51,510 --> 00:36:50,079
might be able to explain it but a lot of

1048
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:51,520
times i guess why am i having these

1049
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:53,119
experiences and i could nobody can tell

1050
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:54,880
you that that's the thing that's right

1051
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:56,960
it's it's there's so many complexities

1052
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,599
involved in that um but what to do with

1053
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:01,680
them is a different story that's that's

1054
00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:03,920
a different story certainly all right

1055
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:05,200
thank you very much

1056
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:08,240
okay let's see um we'll i'll go up here

1057
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:09,280
and do these sort of in the order

1058
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:11,920
they've been upvoted i think here so

1059
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:14,400
shay asks do you and i presume you

1060
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:16,880
meaning you lloyd have any beliefs as to

1061
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:20,000
why we incarnate reincarnate or what is

1062
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,000
the overarching purpose of our recurring

1063
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:24,240
experiences here

1064
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:25,040
no

1065
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:30,960
why is such and such a person hanging

1066
00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:32,320
around as a ghost

1067
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:34,000
and

1068
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:36,320
you re if you read across all sorts of

1069
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:37,680
psychics and

1070
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:39,359
ghost hunters over time including hans

1071
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:41,440
holzer and people like that there seem

1072
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:44,320
to be like a range of reasons why a

1073
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:45,760
ghost is still here and one of the most

1074
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,200
common ones is well they don't know that

1075
00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:49,839
they're dead but that's actually clearly

1076
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:52,240
not the case in so many of our our

1077
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:53,839
of our cases and the reports that

1078
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:55,200
witness reports where people actually

1079
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,880
communicating they know they're dead

1080
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,400
they may not want to admit that they're

1081
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,240
dead but they know they're dead um

1082
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:02,640
there's also situations we've had where

1083
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:04,320
according to the witnesses and or the

1084
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:06,240
psychics or mediums we're working with

1085
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:08,240
they don't they didn't see the light

1086
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:10,000
that we always hear about in the movies

1087
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:11,760
and they didn't know what to do

1088
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:14,720
then we hear they're afraid to move on

1089
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:16,960
or that they want to stay in their home

1090
00:38:20,630 --> 00:38:18,480
or with their family

1091
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,640
so the range of reasons seems to be

1092
00:38:23,670 --> 00:38:22,480
everything and i tend to think it's

1093
00:38:25,829 --> 00:38:23,680
the reason why they want to have more

1094
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:25,839
ghosts is because

1095
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:28,000
there are number one psychological

1096
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:29,359
reasons the part of that person who's

1097
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:31,200
died number two probably some

1098
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,800
environmental issues maybe the

1099
00:38:36,069 --> 00:38:34,160
conditions like the earth's magnetic

1100
00:38:37,829 --> 00:38:36,079
field something needs to be right but

1101
00:38:40,310 --> 00:38:37,839
i'm guessing also i mean i can't

1102
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:40,320
speculate on this really but there may

1103
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:42,320
be a spiritual reason of some other kind

1104
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:44,320
that's also influencing this too and

1105
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:47,280
that piece we can't get to

1106
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:48,800
good thank you

1107
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:51,280
well let's see we have um

1108
00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:53,680
i've answered that one already we'll go

1109
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:54,800
to

1110
00:38:59,550 --> 00:38:57,920
uh my keys uh are haunting simply

1111
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:59,560
apparitions that are connected to

1112
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:02,160
location-based activity

1113
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:03,920
if so could a haunting become an

1114
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:06,320
apparition if some location based

1115
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,200
business is resolved well first we tend

1116
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:11,119
to we do not refer to an

1117
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:13,119
apparition who is in a location

1118
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,920
specifically as a haunting case

1119
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:17,520
so remember apparition refers to someone

1120
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:18,880
who's conscious

1121
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:20,480
consciousness is important whereas the

1122
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:22,960
typical haunting or residual haunting is

1123
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:26,640
place or object location connected and

1124
00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:28,160
that has no consciousness that's just a

1125
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:29,440
recording

1126
00:39:33,270 --> 00:39:31,359
on the other hand

1127
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,280
we were all haunting our homes when we

1128
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:35,760
were in lockdown during the pandemic

1129
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,000
the word haunt refers to place and if

1130
00:39:41,589 --> 00:39:40,240
you watch old movies especially old film

1131
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,599
noir movies they're always talking about

1132
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:43,440
finding the old haunts of that guy who

1133
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:45,920
you know the killer or somebody else uh

1134
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,200
for those who are fans of the old tv

1135
00:39:52,230 --> 00:39:50,000
show cheers norman cliff haunted cheers

1136
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:52,240
so we haunt places when we're alive and

1137
00:39:54,790 --> 00:39:53,520
there's no reason why an apparition

1138
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:54,800
won't stay in one place but they can

1139
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:56,400
move around as well

1140
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:58,640
so it's not the case that if we work out

1141
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:00,480
the location or figure out the location

1142
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,720
based business unless that's also the

1143
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:04,400
apparitions business nothing's going to

1144
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:07,440
change with that apparition

1145
00:40:12,550 --> 00:40:11,680
makes sense thank you uh let's see

1146
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:12,560
uh

1147
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:16,800
do you think anyone can practice to

1148
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:18,560
become effective at connecting with

1149
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:19,599
spirit

1150
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:21,920
or is it more of a gift that must come

1151
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,280
naturally from birth or from some

1152
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:25,040
transformational experience such as an

1153
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:26,560
nde

1154
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:28,960
okay so first i want to say that many of

1155
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:30,960
us in the field believe wouldn't use the

1156
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:32,800
word gift necessarily other than to say

1157
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:35,920
that a very talented musician or artist

1158
00:40:40,069 --> 00:40:38,480
is gifted that's the same context

1159
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:40,079
so this is not that kind of it's a

1160
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:41,680
talent or you know something and you can

1161
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:44,000
develop that talent uh and we all seem

1162
00:40:48,309 --> 00:40:45,599
to have some aptitude for something

1163
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:48,319
creative i mean i i can actually sculpt

1164
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:50,400
pretty well i cannot paint or draw to

1165
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:51,599
save my life

1166
00:40:55,670 --> 00:40:54,079
so that is not my aptitude and the same

1167
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:55,680
thing goes with psychic talents it seems

1168
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:57,599
that some people have an aptitude to

1169
00:41:01,349 --> 00:40:58,880
become mediums or to get that

1170
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:01,359
communication some people can read

1171
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:03,040
people i know mediums who cannot read

1172
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:04,480
living people and

1173
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:06,319
meet and psychics who can't re connect

1174
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:07,599
with spirits

1175
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,599
so we have an aptitude for various

1176
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,520
talents or applications of psychic

1177
00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:13,440
ability there are people who can do john

1178
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:15,920
was mentioning earlier about um people

1179
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:17,839
who are healers can't do pk well that

1180
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,160
actually makes sense to me because those

1181
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:22,240
are two very different applications of

1182
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:23,760
psychokinesis

1183
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:25,520
and not everybody who can bend a spoon

1184
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:28,319
can affect a device and vice versa

1185
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:31,599
so we have these spread we can learn

1186
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:34,400
to better figure out what we can do

1187
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:35,920
we were all much more psychic when we

1188
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:37,520
were kids we just have to figure out

1189
00:41:46,950 --> 00:41:42,870
makes sense

1190
00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:49,190
randy has an interesting question it's

1191
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,440
assumed that living witnesses process

1192
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:53,200
their side perception of ghosts via

1193
00:41:56,950 --> 00:41:55,440
their visual or auditory processing

1194
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:56,960
areas of brain

1195
00:42:01,510 --> 00:41:59,440
a cy-induced hallucination

1196
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,520
how does the apparition itself utilize

1197
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:04,079
psy without a physical brain all right

1198
00:42:08,550 --> 00:42:06,400
and hi randy randy's a long time

1199
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,560
investigator as well i know pretty well

1200
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:10,800
well first i think that first statement

1201
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:13,119
may not be the correct assumption

1202
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:14,800
we don't know if perception just resides

1203
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:16,160
wholly in the brain or if it's in

1204
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:17,760
consciousness and of consciousness is

1205
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,960
more than brain

1206
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,560
if consciousness can survive the death

1207
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:22,800
of the body then there's got to be some

1208
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,640
form of that perceptual process in the

1209
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:26,880
body that is not brain related or

1210
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:28,880
directly brain related maybe the data

1211
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:29,839
comes in through the brain but

1212
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:32,000
consciousness does something with it

1213
00:42:34,470 --> 00:42:33,599
so the how

1214
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:34,480
um

1215
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,400
is the same way how they can survive

1216
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:38,319
without the brain at all

1217
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,760
it's all part of that same thing

1218
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:43,440
so which means we're still stuck with an

1219
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:45,200
answer without an answer

1220
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,560
that's right

1221
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,480
these negatives become quite challenging

1222
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,920
don't they right you know and the

1223
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:51,280
reality is that all these terms

1224
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:52,720
apparition haunting poltergeist they're

1225
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:54,560
all placeholders it's a way we can

1226
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:56,240
understand what at least think we

1227
00:43:00,390 --> 00:42:58,079
understand what's going on and hopefully

1228
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:00,400
resolve some situations for the living

1229
00:43:03,510 --> 00:43:02,400
and the dead but we may learn that

1230
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,520
there's something else that we've been

1231
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:04,960
missing all along and that's really

1232
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,920
important to remember

1233
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:09,760
um here's another question from paul

1234
00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:11,040
that's sort of

1235
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:12,960
related to the the previous one you said

1236
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:15,680
a prerequisite experience is perception

1237
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,079
however many occurrences are filmed or

1238
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:20,319
photographed and available to be viewed

1239
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:21,920
by anyone

1240
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:23,359
that would imply an actual physical

1241
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:25,280
disturbance independent of the

1242
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:26,400
observers

1243
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:28,000
well first i would challenge that

1244
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,160
statement because most ghost photos and

1245
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,640
especially if they're orb related not

1246
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:34,480
paranormal at all

1247
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:37,440
they have other photographic or or video

1248
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:39,440
explanations for so many of them you

1249
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:40,720
know if a physical object's moving

1250
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,079
that's a whole different story but even

1251
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:43,839
then we have to kind of consider what's

1252
00:43:46,470 --> 00:43:44,960
going on

1253
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:46,480
the the assumption is and this is

1254
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:47,760
something that goes back this is well

1255
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:50,560
before me is that if something shows up

1256
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,400
on film or on

1257
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:54,960
digital it is because that entity that

1258
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,240
apparition

1259
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,880
is affecting the device

1260
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,720
or the recording medium

1261
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,400
that is effectively what's going on with

1262
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:05,119
evp if a spirit is putting a voice on

1263
00:44:09,349 --> 00:44:07,599
the recording medium or on the device

1264
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,359
that is by nature psychokinesis it's a

1265
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,280
form of mind over matter the apparition

1266
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:13,440
is just a mind they're affecting matter

1267
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:16,690
or energy that is pk

1268
00:44:28,020 --> 00:44:17,920
[Music]

1269
00:44:28,030 --> 00:44:34,390
[Laughter]

1270
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:36,710
apparitions from centuries ago

1271
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,760
or only from recent times there are you

1272
00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:41,920
know there are actually reports of

1273
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:43,200
certainly hauntings that have gone on

1274
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:44,880
for centuries and there are reports

1275
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,520
occasionally that um there may be

1276
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:49,200
interactive apparitions from centuries

1277
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:50,400
ago as well

1278
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:52,640
certainly not in places where there has

1279
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:54,400
not been human habitation or connection

1280
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:56,640
to anybody for centuries

1281
00:45:02,950 --> 00:44:59,280
so you're more likely to find hauntings

1282
00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:02,960
and or apparitions from much longer ago

1283
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,200
in less

1284
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,760
develo in i should say

1285
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,359
places that have been developed a lot

1286
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:10,720
longer ago

1287
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,880
than other places so for example here in

1288
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,240
the bay area

1289
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,640
san francisco bay area

1290
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:18,079
you don't have a lot of old ghosts or

1291
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,599
hauntings certainly no hauntings in san

1292
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,599
francisco proper for the most part with

1293
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,760
a couple of exceptions before the 1906

1294
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:25,119
earthquake because all those buildings

1295
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:26,400
were destroyed or most of them were

1296
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,160
destroyed quite a bit of the city was

1297
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:30,480
was on fire or was destroyed

1298
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:33,040
but and in the suburbs

1299
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:34,640
you know unless we we we do have a

1300
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,160
haunting imprint that's been reported in

1301
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:38,880
a local park area uh which

1302
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,359
relates to a a minimal or kind of a

1303
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,040
minor battle or skirmish between some

1304
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:45,520
native population and some settlers from

1305
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:47,599
the 1800s but other than that we don't

1306
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:49,359
get too much back before when humans

1307
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,599
were habitating at that point so it just

1308
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:54,000
really depends on the location

1309
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:56,079
sure

1310
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,470
stephen asks do you have an opinion on

1311
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,560
the school experiments and maybe for

1312
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:06,319
those who may not know where they are

1313
00:46:13,829 --> 00:46:12,230
i just lost your audio mark

1314
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:13,839
i'm sorry can you hear me okay i can

1315
00:46:17,109 --> 00:46:14,800
hear you now

1316
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:17,119
all right yeah i can see the question so

1317
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,560
okay so you want me to mention what so

1318
00:46:21,510 --> 00:46:20,400
skull uh was a series of experiments

1319
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:21,520
conducted

1320
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,480
um in the uk by robin foye and others

1321
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:26,240
and uh there's actually a few

1322
00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:27,920
documentaries out there's i believe

1323
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:28,960
there's going to be a major motion

1324
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:31,359
picture on the subject coming up as well

1325
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,200
dramatic version of that where these

1326
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:35,680
researchers decided to try to

1327
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:37,280
contact spirits

1328
00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:38,480
and they got a lot of physical

1329
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:40,000
manifestations

1330
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,760
in the dark and some other some really

1331
00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:43,440
interesting communication there are

1332
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:44,960
several books on the subject i do

1333
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,240
recommend them

1334
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,400
i you know my opinion is that these were

1335
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:49,839
very sincere

1336
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:51,680
honest researchers

1337
00:46:55,829 --> 00:46:54,240
um i i don't have any specific opinion

1338
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,839
about whether who they contacted was

1339
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:57,839
actually who they said they were or even

1340
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,760
if the researchers themselves might not

1341
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:01,680
have caused the phenomenon of them

1342
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:03,520
unconsciously so that's always a

1343
00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:05,200
question that comes up in physical

1344
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:07,119
mediumship for that matter but it's a

1345
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:08,400
really interesting thing and actually

1346
00:47:11,190 --> 00:47:10,079
one of the i participated in one of the

1347
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,200
documentaries the afterlife

1348
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:13,280
investigations uh that was done years

1349
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,880
ago about the skull

1350
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:16,800
um skull work and it's on i think it's

1351
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:17,599
on

1352
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:22,640
that's available for free

1353
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,680
okay good

1354
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,839
shea asks what led to your interest in

1355
00:47:32,549 --> 00:47:29,920
this field

1356
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:32,559
i was a weird little kid

1357
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:34,079
i um

1358
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,960
honestly i was a science geek as a kid

1359
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:38,400
especially interested in space science

1360
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:40,319
my dad actually worked for nbc

1361
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:41,920
and was involved in the coverage of the

1362
00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:44,000
mercury and gemini space shot the same

1363
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,760
time i had a tv set in my room when i

1364
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:47,839
was two because my dad worked for nbc

1365
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,800
and i started watching shows like topper

1366
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:52,960
and one step beyond in the twilight zone

1367
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,520
before i was even four years old

1368
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:57,839
and that got me interested in folklore

1369
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:01,040
and kind of a side by side with science

1370
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:02,400
and then came

1371
00:48:06,549 --> 00:48:04,880
dark shadows

1372
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:06,559
and uh actually comic books were in

1373
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:08,319
there as well so comic books were

1374
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,240
raising the question of can human beings

1375
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:12,640
be more than what we think we are and

1376
00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:14,240
dark shadows introduced me to the term

1377
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,880
parapsychology verbally i'd read it in a

1378
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,200
comic book once before uh in fact i'm

1379
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,119
just reading a book about accounts of

1380
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:23,440
kids who all ran home at uh at four

1381
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,520
o'clock to watch dark shadows all of us

1382
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:27,280
were around the same age called running

1383
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:28,800
home to shadows

1384
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:31,680
um which is really fun but that sent me

1385
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:33,599
to the library and i found not only

1386
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,040
books on vampires and werewolves which

1387
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,760
of course are in dark shadows but also

1388
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,200
books on parapsychology which

1389
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:40,880
unfortunately due to the dewey decimal

1390
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:43,359
system are in the same section of the

1391
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:46,319
library so it was folklore that led me

1392
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:49,280
to the science and reading the books by

1393
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,680
ryan and pratt and other folks that got

1394
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:54,160
me heavily interested in the subject

1395
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:55,839
it's a mystery and i wanted to solve

1396
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:57,200
this mystery be involved in the solving

1397
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,150
oh let's see

1398
00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:06,630
try this one here how can we balance the

1399
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:08,480
scholar skepticism

1400
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:11,839
versus participants collaboration

1401
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,400
the classic anthropological problem um

1402
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,960
at what time does a researcher

1403
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:18,559
scientific approach

1404
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:20,960
mike get in the way of properly approach

1405
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:23,760
the phenomena or help the experiencers

1406
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:25,200
all right so and this is something we

1407
00:49:29,670 --> 00:49:27,680
deal with in our ethics course for the

1408
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:29,680
ryan research center ryan education

1409
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:31,440
center

1410
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,520
and it's first of all i mean i often

1411
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:36,000
call myself a situational skeptic

1412
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:38,319
that i do believe in psy i do believe in

1413
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:39,760
the phenomena clearly you've heard me

1414
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:42,160
talk about this this way but each

1415
00:49:46,549 --> 00:49:44,160
individual case has to be looked at in a

1416
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:46,559
true skeptical perspective not a

1417
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:48,640
disbelieving perspective but

1418
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:50,319
is it psy you know if you're watching

1419
00:49:52,710 --> 00:49:51,760
the netflix show as a cake it's same

1420
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:52,720
kind of thing

1421
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:54,240
is it psy

1422
00:49:58,710 --> 00:49:56,400
is something psychic happening here and

1423
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:58,720
is that thing over there they reported

1424
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,359
psychic or paranormal versus this thing

1425
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:03,520
over here which seems really to fit into

1426
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:04,640
the apparition or haunting or

1427
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:06,480
poltergeist thing so we have to kind of

1428
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,079
pull those apart that's kind of

1429
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:10,400
scientific skeptical thinking but that

1430
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:13,520
is to figure out what's going on

1431
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:16,640
at some point depending on the case

1432
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:18,640
and depending on the part the people the

1433
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:20,400
witnesses who have called you for help

1434
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:23,040
hey have they called you for help

1435
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,119
because they are disturbed so at that

1436
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:27,839
point that is an overriding ethical

1437
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,960
concern

1438
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,720
and i will often throw science out the

1439
00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:32,720
window the scientific method certainly

1440
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:35,040
out the window in order to help people

1441
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:36,800
work through what's going on even when

1442
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:39,280
it has a normal explanation we have to

1443
00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:41,440
kind of couch things in different terms

1444
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:43,680
people often feel unfortunately if you

1445
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:45,040
don't explain it to them right they feel

1446
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:47,200
stupid and insulted

1447
00:50:52,230 --> 00:50:49,200
and there's so much that we run into

1448
00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:52,240
that a normal person wouldn't have that

1449
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:54,800
in their back pocket of knowledge

1450
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,960
or they've made assumptions based on tv

1451
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:58,400
or something else that we have to

1452
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,640
explain it in ways that make them feel

1453
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:03,359
okay kind of like if you know one of the

1454
00:51:06,230 --> 00:51:04,720
problems i that we deal with in the

1455
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:06,240
magic world is that somebody wants to

1456
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:08,400
know how something is done they get

1457
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:10,240
really insistent and if you actually

1458
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:11,200
tell them

1459
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,430
fifty percent of the people get mad

1460
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:15,280
[Laughter]

1461
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,640
the other 50 percent i think that's

1462
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,720
really cool but yeah the people get mad

1463
00:51:21,510 --> 00:51:20,400
we try to avoid those people that's

1464
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:21,520
right

1465
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:23,280
um

1466
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:24,960
uh charlie monstadov do you think this

1467
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,680
could be inherited through bloodline

1468
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,200
so the question of nature or nurture

1469
00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:31,040
comes up quite a bit there seems to be a

1470
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:33,839
hereditary factor here for sure but the

1471
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:35,599
other thing that's just as important if

1472
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:37,839
not possibly more important

1473
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:40,480
is the family that you grew up in and

1474
00:51:44,470 --> 00:51:42,720
the culture that you're in

1475
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:44,480
in how supportive

1476
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:46,640
is it so i've talked to people psychics

1477
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:49,680
who were psychic from being a kid and

1478
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:52,400
their parents were extremely supportive

1479
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:53,920
and actually treated them like this was

1480
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,440
all normal

1481
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:57,760
or kind of enhanced helped enhance that

1482
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:59,280
and then there are other people who have

1483
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:00,880
one parent that does and another parent

1484
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,880
that doesn't and so they gravitate

1485
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,040
toward the parent that does support them

1486
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:07,200
so it's it's a difficult thing to say

1487
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:08,960
whether or not this is just genetic it's

1488
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:12,640
certainly not just the nurture part

1489
00:52:15,430 --> 00:52:14,079
sure

1490
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,440
and that's always hard to unpack when

1491
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:17,920
things run in families right oh it is it

1492
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:19,599
is right

1493
00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:21,599
uh shea wants to know any thoughts on

1494
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:24,400
what shadow people are i.e apparitions

1495
00:52:28,950 --> 00:52:26,559
that appear to move in a human way but

1496
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:28,960
look essentially like a dark show with

1497
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:32,000
no discernible details so so first of

1498
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,079
all um a lot of the things we see on the

1499
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,000
tv shows the reality shows that they're

1500
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:38,319
calling shadow people are not even

1501
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,079
though they are shadows that show up in

1502
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:41,599
night shot cameras

1503
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:43,599
or on the night shot in the dark and

1504
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,359
that's because the night shot cameras

1505
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:47,359
actually have a spotlight it's infrared

1506
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:49,839
and it causes shadows so putting those

1507
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:51,040
aside

1508
00:52:56,150 --> 00:52:53,440
there are experiences people have

1509
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:56,160
where that figure in shadow

1510
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,480
seems to behave or move around like a

1511
00:53:03,589 --> 00:53:01,040
normal like it like a regular person and

1512
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,599
that is very likely that you as the

1513
00:53:08,309 --> 00:53:05,760
percipient the person who's experiencing

1514
00:53:10,790 --> 00:53:08,319
that that figure is not getting let's

1515
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:10,800
say getting the full broadcast

1516
00:53:13,829 --> 00:53:12,160
you're you're getting a partial

1517
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:13,839
broadcast you're there's too much static

1518
00:53:17,589 --> 00:53:15,760
here so you perceive it

1519
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,599
uh perceive that figure as a shadowy

1520
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:19,359
figure or even sometimes as a light

1521
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:21,920
sometimes it goes both ways for that

1522
00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:24,559
there should be no inherent negativity

1523
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,760
about it being shadowy or fuzzy it just

1524
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:30,000
means the reception's not good now there

1525
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:31,520
are other types there are other shadow

1526
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:33,040
figures that are reported by people that

1527
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,280
people claim to be in the shape of an

1528
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:37,119
extraterrestrial or in something else

1529
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,559
and we really don't know what to make of

1530
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:40,079
some of those

1531
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:41,119
okay

1532
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:43,440
um i got a note here that we do need to

1533
00:53:47,589 --> 00:53:46,480
wrap this up because we have a 6 15 talk

1534
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,599
um

1535
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,079
and uh there still seems to be interest

1536
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:52,640
will you be sticking around after the 6

1537
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,079
15 for the 7 15 social hour of people i

1538
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:57,839
sure will because it's much earlier here

1539
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,160
for me in california yeah that's true

1540
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:02,240
okay so that's terrific so thank you

1541
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:04,079
let's all give a big round of applause

1542
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:07,920
to lloyd here thank you very much and um

1543
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:08,960
you can

1544
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:11,440
join him at 7 15 in the social lounge

1545
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:14,400
we'll be ending this session um but the

1546
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:16,319
next session will start shortly you'll

1547
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:19,119
get put back in the social lounge but um

1548
00:54:23,670 --> 00:54:21,359
only for a couple of minutes until uh

1549
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:23,680
our final session uh final talk by paul